A lot of attention is paid the biggest ships with the most outrageous features - and for good reason. We discuss what megaships are, why they're so appealing to some people, and talk about how they fit into the bigger picture of the world of cruising.
Rise of the Megaship - What Are They and Will Ships Keep Getting Bigger? - CruiseHabit Podcast Episode 3
Mega ships got a lot of attention marketing budgets get allocated to what will draw a crowd but there are still plenty of modestly sized ships and plenty of cruise line sailing in them whether you refuse to cruise any other way or you're steering clear of the crowds there's no denying the craze that is the topic of today's cruise have a podcast I'm Billy hearse and I'm rick ross Today we're discussing the rise of the maggots ship. Your have to set sail on the cruise have a poet cost and it will be a voyage through the will of ship's pullets and beyond Welcome aboard so diving right in we should probably talk about what mega ships are what does that term mean and the reality is as far as I know in far as Rick and I could find there is no actual definition for the purpose of our conversation today we're going to think of mega ships as ships that have a lower berth capacity in first and second guess in a room of four thousand or more but that in mind I've got plenty of exceptions for this role just like any other. Rick what. You know we're going to talk about some examples of mega ships here do you think that four thousand passenger definition is a good one yet I think there are just a few ships that meet that kind of definition and those are ships that have a different sense about them and some different marketing because of that. Fair enough and I'm sure just as what a mega ship is has evolved over time it will continue to evolve but as of as of this recording you know one day people will look back in ten years and laugh at the tiny ships that we're talking about make ships maybe not I don't know maybe so we will start off carnival Vista class and this is actually one of the one of the maybe smaller technically mega mega ship class of ships but I'll tell you I had the pleasure of not sailing on Vista but one on board for the day and actually you can read about that over on the site and it definitely has you know as you mentioned a different feel about it it is an experience then there's the embassy I'll let Rick say it because he pronounces it so well Oh thank you that be the M.S.E. class said like a pro yes grew up in an Italian neighborhood now are and everybody knows it now. And then we have the breakaway. And then break way class from Norwegian and then and we're not mentioning all of them of course then I think the most iconic the one that allows a lot of people most people think of when someone says mega ships and that is row Caribbeans away says class of ship yeah that's the one that's known to be huge sure and I think I think people know that people who are picking away says are picking at for that reason agreed and you know something that makes it not that I want to overcomplicate labels and Callie you know have a super mega class of ship. But even even within the royal fleet there are other classes of ships that meet this kind of loose criteria that we're throwing around you know Quantum class Freedom class almost there I think about thirty seven thirty eight hundred passengers in the lower berths. But what's interesting about the a waste is class they are so much wider than other ships they have a very wide B and it really makes for a completely different build where you have you know pools that are side by side you know this venue's on one side of the ship but on the other side is something completely different you know even to realise you're there so it is you know it was certainly not Omega ships are created equal. You know we're are making ships inherently better right so so what what makes a mega ship do you think Rick appealing Well before we say that like let's look at the mega ships and say which ones are out there and what they have that sets them apart from say other ships that. The cruise line sails so with the carnival Vista class one of the things that stands out to me about that ship or that line of ships and we've got right now what the Vista the horizon and we're going to have the panorama in a year or so is that that sky track the bicycling thing did you get a chance to ride on that while you were on the ship I did they were I went up there and they were just closing it down and I gave them the the Doraville Billy eyes and they let me on. That suede what you think you know what it was actually cooler than I thought it was going to be one to answer this question going a little off topic but a lot of people ask me this it is not hard to pedal it is very well geared so you don't feel like you're peddling a ton and it's exhausting but it's also not difficult really cool views it is a perspective that you just can't get on another ship and those type of truly unique experiences that just mechanically physically you can't get on other ships I think that's one of the things that makes for a mega ship yet when you get a ship that is that large you can put these new groundbreaking features on to the ship and that that's something that's drawn my eye to the carnival Vista class with the Norwegian breakaway class. One of the things that's different about that is the whole sport zone at the end sometimes they have a race track back there sometimes they have ropes course back there two of the breakaway Clash's have a race track on them that be I think it's the Billis and the joy anything else that stands out in your mind when you think about what makes a breakaway class ships distinct. This is something that's actually on a number of Norwegian ships and I'm going to say the wrong name I don't know what they call it but the fact that and not just on Norwegian ships now but on a lot of these ships you have these promenades that are not just a walking path right there are little like cafes or there are bars there are Vista there's a barbecue restaurant but that's something that we do see on the breakaway class of ships and other mega ships and that's another maybe one of those kind of course things that is not necessary to make a ship being a mega ship but that the that is rather distinct that the breakaway has and it allows you to enjoy the ship in a way that you simply can't on others. Yet when I was on the SO in the Norwegian escape I found that was underutilized I know the area we're talking about that's kind of I can outdoor walk and you could have outdoor seating to all these restaurants I think it's great that they added it I don't know that Norwegian has figured out how to maximize it yet. Interesting yet I almost wonder if maybe that is better for certain itineraries you know M.S.C. seaside which were on in July and just how we live blog that sailing really cool they have a similar kind of feature. And while I thought it was really neat I thought it was especially cool import and it made me think wow this is a great feature for when you're in Alaska because when you're cruising Alaska even on sea days you're often just you have these amazing sights near the ship and to be able to enjoy your meal or just relax and see that without being just leaning against a railing or at a pool at a pool deck you know I think there's some good utility to that that maybe isn't served as well in the Caribbean. OK I can see that what I hear about Alaska and I have not Kers there is people think they're either going to have a balcony room or they're going to be crowded with everyone up on the pool deck trying to get the good view and with something like an open promenade like that I could see how more people could enjoy the view and do something other than just lean up against the railing that I completely agree and I think that's that's important and something that I suspect as as Norwegian others find exactly how to utilize those spaces will become a staple. And then you mentioned the the wider being on the Royal Caribbean Oasis and one of the things that allows is these central areas like the Central Park area it's between two stacks of rooms so you get this kind of enclosed area. That's totally different totally unique on a cruise ship Yeah and. With the Oasis class ship that's where we see the biggest step up and in the beam I remember though going back number of years ago stepping on the Queen Mary two and going wow I've never looked across a ship and seen a totally different venue you know not just of the other side of this lounge but that's true you have really unique experiences like Central Park like the boardwalk and on Oasis class in particular you end up with more linear space around the pools and such because they can actually have two of them side by side because it's so wide that's kind and so one of the questions that comes up is Why are these mega ships what the cruise lines are building now and will you have some thoughts on that yet so. The if you look at reasons people give for being hesitant to take their first cruise and if you if you've heard me talk for more than like thirty seconds before you know that I always remind people nine out of ten people who take one cruise take another but the thing that makes it hard for some people to take that first leap the two big factors are they think they're going to be seasick or they think they're going to be bored so when you have these really large ships. You know the larger ship the harder it is to move around in the water so sea sickness becomes less of a concern though frankly I think it's an overblown concern to begin with and same with boredom I often say of some of these mega ships that are out there now they may not not every venue not every feature is going to be what everyone loves However everyone will find something that they love because the size allows them to to provide such a wide variety of options not just for individuals but for families great for multigenerational travel things like that so you knock down those those objections pretty easily with with mega ships Yeah I do agree with that one of the things that I really enjoyed about the Oasis Kushat was the Aqua theater in the back and that's kind of something that would be hard to build on a ship that or if that ship or any narrower. Yeah and you know another thing is you just you have to make choices and you do in a building as well but especially on a ship you just have to make choices how to utilize space so beyond the kind of the physics of it all right there is just the fact that even if on a on another ship you could have something like the Ark with theatre Well it's going to take the place of something else and that's still true on mega ships but you have space to really spread out those options certainly if we went back ten twenty years ago and suggested for example racetracks you know on the ship it would seem ridiculous not only for the reasons that maybe candidly I think it might for me be a little ridiculous now but hey for those who enjoy it great but also because if you go and imagine all the the other stuff that we could put that we need to put on the ship Well you have more options so you can you can throw stuff out there and see what happens like like a giant a giant area of grass on the hassles as class ship for example. Another reason I think that lines are moving to a one of the benefits that a line gets by operating one of these economies of scale you're going to have to have a certain amount of kitchen equipment and regardless of whether you're using that to cook for one hundred people on hundred fifty people two thousand people four thousand people. Yeah. You know it comes down to the equipment the staff even the fuel I mean if you've ever if you've ever gone out on a boat to take like a twenty foot boat out for a day and you go wow I spent more on gas then I would have on a cruise for the weekend. You know it works just in a lot of ways the cruise lines. Up their businesses they want to make money any way they can but that the two big areas on larger ships and then older ships that already paid off right so Lake Norwegian sky is it's their smallest. Ship sailing right now I believe but. Frank Doria the C.E.O. of Norwegian cruise line holding says it is the most profitable ship they have similarly when you have a ship that can carry sixty eight hundred people or something like that when you look at some of these builds there is a certain economy of scale there that's very beneficial to the cruise lines so in these four lines that we mentioned carnival M.S.C. Norwegian broker been some of them right now two of them are are making only that class of ship so the only thing that's coming out of a shipyard with the Carmel brand on it is a fist a question and similarly Similarly for Norwegian they've upgraded the breakaway to breakaway Plus class but that is the only kind of ship they're making. Where as with M.S.C. and Royal Caribbean M.S.C. has got both the Merivale IA class and the seaside class coming out of the shipyards now and we're Caribbeans got the Quantum class also in production as well as the oasis. For those the seaside we talked about that prominent that you like so much and for the urban quantum one of the things that always attracts me that is hearing Berg of blog site and podcast talk about his experiences into seventy. Two seventy a venue that I really want to check out I want to go on a Quantum class just to see that you know I think the reason and this is somewhat speculative on my part but if we look at carnival a Norwegian building currently just these two classes of ships now they have other builds scheduled Don't get me wrong. Correct me if I'm correct me if I'm wrong Rick we're just talking about the bills that they actually have in shipyards right now that you know people are putting. Tool to metal or some expression here right where we're talking about what's what we can expect to see now gotcha so if we look at Carnival and Norwegian The majority of their business is focused on warm weather cruising you know they do other areas certainly but that's the majority whereas if you look at other lines Caribbean and the sea they have ships in other regions where they may need other class of ships for specific reasons like we're talking about the Quantum class they have retractable roof over the pools. And there's a reason for that you want that when you're sailing in Alaska or you're doing transatlantic So you're doing north eastern seaboard or you know Bermuda that's you know there are certain features that you just need when you're serving certain geographies. A retractable roof on a ship in the Caribbean it's nice to have but certainly not a need to have the weather is pretty great that part of the world yeah very true if it does rain in the Caribbean you just wait like three minutes and then it stops especially when you're at sea it's bizarre. So let's only We've got what's what's coming out I know you've looked at the cruise industry News dot com cruise ship order book and crunched some numbers on what's coming out in terms of built now what we've been talking about so for so far in our definition of what's a mega ship is talking about passenger capacity because I think that's people know how to count number of people but that's not really how the cruise ship industry measures a ship what you tell us about sure so I'll kind of explain how these measurements are frequently done in. Some of heard me talk about this before Gross registered tonnage is off and how how these things are looked at in this is not actually a measure of weight it's a measure of internal volume and there's all sorts of complicated math and people that make a lot of money as naval engineers work that out but to give you an idea just for some perspective a way says class ships you know the largest class of ships out there right now range from about two hundred twenty five to about two hundred twenty seven I believe thousand gross tons. And that's pretty big some of these other mega ships that we're talking about are in the May Be hundred forty two hundred eighty thousand gross ton range so I just want to offer that perspective now when we look at what's actually out there. Because we see all the. So much attention to these mega ships we see on television we hear people talking about among social media we're talking about them right now that's what this episode is about so you think wow ships are just getting so huge so I looked at the order book and look at what's coming out in twenty eighteen or what has and is coming out twenty eighteen twenty one thousand and twenty twenty and I ran some averages in twenty eighteen the average new ship would be eighty eight thousand eight hundred seventy gross tons for twenty one thousand just under sixty nine thousand tons and then it bumps up a little in two thousand and twenty to one hundred two thousand Chris Chris registered ton so to where I just want to be like a half and a third of the size of it always this question right less than half to right around thirty so so my point of that is. That there are other ships out there and in fact the majority of ships sailing in not just sailing it's not just oh well Billy you know not all of them are these giant ships some of them are older Nonono even the majority of newer ships are significantly smaller but these mega ships for very good reason get a lot of attention it you know also in fairness ocean cruising isn't the only type of cruising out the river cruises are becoming more and more popular and they affect those numbers in two thousand and fifteen there were a total of one hundred eighty four river cruise ships there have been eight there were eighteen more added in two thousand and seventeen and we expect you know looking at what's on order and what lines are doing we expect that it will continue to be a big thing there and obviously those ships are a lot smaller because. Well they are really going to bridge it's you have to fit under bridges you have to fit through the locks. There there would be some religious text challenges there so you know mega ships are not everything and that's OK because one different people have different preferences I personally actually kind of prefer smaller ships I mean I'm sailing on symphony I think forty nine days after we record this podcast and Symphony of the seas will be the largest is the largest cruise ship in the world right now again they offer something for everyone the really really cool especially for groups and stuff but in general especially if it's just an eye sailing I actually like a much smaller ship. And I think we see that even though people often start out especially now with these mega ships. That's not necessarily where they where they stay you've got you've got a theory or are some experience about how people's cruising habits change I just mention the name of our of our website in a sense organically. Oh yeah it's very grainy but you have you have a kind of a you made some observations about how people Cruise differently as they are in different stages of life yeah and not just I would say not just different stage of life but even different stages in their crews their crews journey sounds so nice when I say it that way doesn't it. So keeping in mind what we discussed before that make it ships help break down some of those barriers that keep people from taking their very first cruise the boredom the sea sickness concerns once they realize oh cruising is so much different than I could possibly imagined until I experienced it they're more comfortable in trying different things and as you tend to go upmarket too and then that doesn't just mean more more expensive though it certainly can mean but if you look at ships that are maybe not targeting multi generation as much that aren't targeting families with kids as much and yes they go into more expensive experiences sometimes those ships tend to be smaller sometimes a lot smaller so. It you know thinking of this I mean he commerce nerd think of this like a funnel you know you have you have people loading up on these mega ships trying it out for the first time now they're hooked on cruising well as they want to try more things maybe with out there their kids or maybe you know as they get older and they want different experiences on premium lines like celebrity Holland America princess or even on luxury luxury lines Oceana region stuff like that as the graduate well that means there need to be more of those ships now so as you have. You know these these mega ships with all this capacity you actually need to have a lot of smaller ships ready ready as well. For me I think what what I sense about moving toward smaller ships is the variety of I ten or Aries like with these very large ships you pretty much are going to get two or three standard I ten or areas in the Caribbean and that may be it and if you want something different like a ten day cruise that goes to the A.B.C. Islands that's not going to be offered on an oasis clash up Sure and there are kind of two reasons for that one of them being of course that you have a lot of people on a ship you need to have mass appeal you need. Almost want to say safe ports not you know in terms like physical safety but you know stuff that everyone's going to be good with right but another is simply that a lot of these ports as of right now can't facilitate not only the physical size of the ship but in some cases just the number of passengers some of these militias it doesn't matter how large the ship was of all the sudden by plane you know sixty five hundred guests arrive. That would be a little more than the destinations could handle So yeah these smaller ships to open up options in terms of itineraries. So now that we've established I guess that there are people moving from larger ships to smaller ships means there need to be some smaller ships we could talk about who's introducing ships that aren't mega ships and for that let's say three thousand passengers out or under three thousand passengers one of the ones that is coming up real soon but we're very excited about I think sixty eight sixty seven days from when we're recording will be on Celebrity Cruise a celebrity edge that comes in at just under three thousand and twenty nine hundred and that's debuting November of this year. So so excited I think or I'm stepping off of a symphony and then like a week or two later going on edge with you and yet that's going to be really impressive a lot of things on that ship that are it's cliche to say game changer but really I think it truly to be the case and when we talk about edge just as some of these other ships that we're talking about they're lower in capacity however they still have. They're still sizable vessels it sounds funny to say you know say oh these smaller ships I mean you know I love ocean or God it has I thinks six hundred eighty people on or something like that. But you know these are much smaller in terms of past capacity and certainly a bit smaller in terms of size as well while still offering some really exciting options and the venues that we're going to see on edge like what's what's all the way. Stern on done even yes very clear stuff I'm really looking forward to seeing what that looks like but I think that does reinforce the point just because a ship is smaller so to say doesn't mean that there can't be innovation there absolutely and I'm sure when it comes to innovation I'm positive we're going to see a lot of that from Virgin voyages as well scarlet lady coming in at twenty seven hundred passengers or so in two thousand and twenty virgin voyages and they'll be a brand new cruise line not something that we see happen every day especially building still relatively large ships and new builds oftentimes when you see new cruise lines pop up there they're buying. Ships that have already been sailing for all may not be anybody home with them so virgin there they they pretty promising to do all sorts of things different and listen some of it's just marketing but some of it looks really cool and we've been writing about that cannot wait to get on there. I don't know even as much as as much fanfare or as much attention as Edge and scarlet lady virgin voyages ship have got I think there's another line though that will probably when the ship starts sailing get more attention than any other. Well they have a huge marketing budget and they right now only have four ships so when they say they're going to add three more yet the the Disney Cruise Line is going to add a third class of ship and just as a small connection between virgin voyages and Disney Cruise Line virgin voyages is being spearheaded by the person who developed Disney Cruise Line Initially yeah. They're kind of I don't want to say family members like that but there's a there's a consistent and will is there there are a lot of very smart talented people with decades of experience in the cruise industry at a building in Plantation Florida working on Virgin voyages right now. It's it's going to be very interesting to see what Virgin does however Disney is a brand that has been constrained by capacity for a long time Disney is one of the most recognizable brands in the world of any type and yet they've only had four ships four by today's standards relatively small ships they have three three new builds I believe coming out. And they're going to be twenty five hundred passengers each the first of them I think sales in two thousand and twenty one we don't know where they're going yet I've I've said that I think I would be surprised if some tonnage for D.C.L. doesn't move to Asia we could talk about this for a long time but yeah there's going to be a lot of attention there and Disney did not feel the need to go to a mega ship which I'm a little bit surprised at but maybe is a way they see themselves differentiating themselves in the in the market. In a way that other lines have had trouble with you know that's a curious question as for what reason did Disney pick this place in the market that they want to do this size and offer these things. Maybe we'll hear some answers to that as the as the class comes out but I think this is right now but that's about the same size as a dreamer fantasies very close yes very very close in size. And then there's project Leonardo from N.C.L. and I'm excited about this because. Maybe a year ago two years ago Time flies when you're having fun I I wrote about ship designs overall and how we're we're starting to see a return to ships that focus on the water this is very apparent with celebrity edge in fact it's all about looking out of the water in venues in rooms with the infinite veranda rooms but in general I was getting honestly kind of I don't say No wait that sounds wrong but I was seeing all these amazing ships from for multiple cruise lines that I love but I would get on board and go I can't see the water that's weird yeah and when I saw the original renderings for Project Leonardo which are thirty three hundred passenger ships and first one's going to come out in two thousand and twenty two from and see how I do I went wow much like the sea side much like now we're seeing edge there's a big focus on being able to enjoy the outside and look out at the water whether inside or out so pretty excited about Project Leonardo that's going to be a real departure from what we've seen in the break windbreak way plus class ships a complete departure in influence I think. Yeah I'm a huge fan of the breakaway break way plus class so if they're if this is going to be more or they're taking lessons learned from the breakaway breakaway Plus class and adding new things to that's a ship I'm really excited about and I hope so because my impression was escape for example as well really cool ship has a lot of beautiful venues a lot of neat entertainment I wish I felt like I was on a ship and I should mention Rick you did a live blog from both escape and epic actually right last Yeah the notes sure the class of ship that preceded the breakaway class Norwegian is the epic last only one was constructed it's the one with the weird bathroom I don't touch on that much I was staying in the room by myself so the weird bathroom didn't bother me at all but yeah please check out crews have a dot com Look for the the epic live blogging the escape live blog if you're curious about what's going on with Norwegian now yeah it'll be interesting to see where they go and then beyond that we can just kind of as a blanket say pretty much every ship that the light luxury and luxury lines are building also fall into this category of Certainly not mega ships right whether it's down to. The new builds that that we just saw from lines like silver sea or Crystal scuse me to use the hotel chain Ritz Carlton Ritz right Ritz Carlton and these are I'm not virgin but the who's the Viking Yes very first time since I was getting these ocean cruise and yeah you know these are ships that range from small cruise ship down to really large yacht and the luxury part of the market people are not looking for the mega ship kind of experience and. And that's OK What's really cool and it's something we probably should have mentioned before another option that these mega ships have or these areas to have the ship in a ship experiences and we should maybe do a whole episode about that one day where there are you know restaurants lounges pools sections of state rooms entire areas that are just for sweet guests and that means guests that might want a light luxury luxury cruise line experience but they're also going with the grandkids and the grandkids are not going to feel at home and you know in the Silver City they can kind of have that. That higher end experience without all the madness without all the hustle and bustle and have the kids in the grandkids out the other part of the ship and you know when they feel like going out there they can join in so that's something that we should definitely talk about one day I do touch on that a bit in the escape live blog I was invited to have lunch at the Haven restaurant a haven is what Norwegian calls that ship with an a ship so we got some information on that in the in the escape lovebug But I agree that's a big great topic for an upcoming contest so let's let's talk about you know we talk about some of these smaller non mega ships now because again it's not to make ships are not the alpha and omega of the cruising world right now but there are some really big ships that are going to be coming out no one has stopped planning big ships there are certainly big ships on the on the horizon so we've got carnival sometimes they're calling it the excellence class and sometimes they're calling it the exile class as far as I can tell that depends on which particular brand in the grander carnival umbrella is going to that ship is going to yeah and this is a weird aside but Carnival is done this before where they'll use a class of ship across multiple brands with certain changes for example. I want to say the Somebody's going to tell me I'm wrong when the separate comes out probably my father I want to see the Queen Victoria and the under canard and home in America New Amsterdam something like that are actually the same the same class but they're different but they came from a very similar mold so that's why the difference there with the with within the carnival brain but yeah those are fifty two hundred passenger ships the the Xcel and excellence. That's that's going to be the biggest for Carnival up to this point but that's a big big big ship I'm curious what they'll be packing and to all of that space and what accommodations they're going to make for the fat many passengers with that much face I can only assume they'll have my preferred Scotch thrown that out there. Sent an e-mail. Royal Caribbean has also introduced the iconoclast and one of the hallmarks there is that it's going to be there switched to liquefied natural gas as a fuel or having that as a fuel option on this new class that was coming in at five thousand and we'll see the first ships coming out in two thousand and twenty two liquefied natural gas we're going to see a lot of these new belts of all sizes Disney Carnival's doing some of that we've written about that a couple times Interesting interesting stuff now you have economy of scale and cleaner fuels so that's all that's all good stuff and then there is. A class of ship carrying a maximum with all births full so bunk beds and everything like that of sixty eight hundred fifty passengers coming two thousand and twenty two from M.S.C. and golly I had a great time on seaside should check out that live blog. Like the embassy experience I detest the name of this class of ship us about it is the M.S.C. world class and it just makes it seem very confusing to say for me and to write about it's the World Class It sounds like you're just giving it a title and not a name but yeah there that's I think correct me if I'm wrong I believe that will be the by passenger capacity passenger capacity specifically the largest ship Yes Yes When the M.S.C. world class debuts that is the greatest number of people you can put on about. Ships and that's not about it's not it's not. Just the greatest number of people you can put on a ship in order to go out and have some fun in the water yes. So you know as we talk about now these ones that are getting larger and larger and this is there's no right answer to this we're we're going to try and predict the future a little bit I'm curious your thoughts reckon then we can talk about some of the things that will influence this have have we seen the largest Will they just keep getting bigger you know and in twenty years we'll be talking about twelve thousand passengers ships. It I can't think of a reason why we wouldn't that seems to be a trend and that economy of scale aspect that's going to be very compelling to publicly traded companies they have an obligation to generate revenue for their shareholders and if that is the thing that does that then that's the thing they've got to do yeah agreed and I don't think that just because the lines keep making larger ships I don't think that precludes them prevents them from making smaller ships as well. You know and there are a couple considerations there for why they might keep making smaller ships in addition to really large ships one is we mentioned some of these ports. You know port ports of call just can't handle that many passengers but also we've seen over the last couple years a huge increase in what the industry calls drive ports implication ports like Galveston like. New Orleans Baltimore I think I think Tampa's also one of them yes absolutely and these reports that have they've had cruising for a while but they're becoming a lot more popular for one cruising is becoming more popular she have more ships you can put them in more places but if a family of four is going out they say this sounds interesting but it be really expensive it take a lot of time to get my family on a plane and fly out to Miami listen if you're if you live near or near Galveston or you live near Tampa or whatever the case may be that can be very appealing also just to have some different options out there and some of those ports can you know adapt and have larger ships but some of them have real concerns Baltimore in Tampa for example they have bridges and you just can't fit some of these ships under these bridges yet one of the things that's been talked about in Tampa is if we want more cruise ships it can't happen in the city proper So if that this part of Florida wants to have a large cruise ship terminal it's going to need to be south of the bridge it's going to need to be in like Brayden ten or Sarasota so that the bridge becomes a non-factor this is the Sunshine Skyway Bridge that we're. And I've heard people say oh well you know cruise lines they've helped out ports you know in the Caribbean for example build up so that they have and they can facilitate more passengers so they just do that you know and some in some of these places like Tampa. It's not a cheap prospect you know moving the port you have a ton of infrastructure concerns and stuff like that not that that are not inherently negative but people talked about changing the bridge. Florida Department of Transportation did they did a feasibility study in two thousand and fourteen it would cost between one and two billion dollars to modify the suspension bridge to accommodate larger cruise ships. You know I would think that there would probably be a much greater incentive and still a lot of resistance to simply moving the port but moving the port isn't an option in all of these places and some places may not want a larger port even if they like the revenue from from cruise ships so I think I don't think we're going to see even the contemporary lines that are real big on mega ships I don't think we're going to see them walk away from smaller builds either well I think one of the things that can let the corporation do that is this kind of umbrella where they have multiple brands and so we may never see a celebrity mega ship and that's OK because we're going to see a mega ships under the Royal Caribbean brand Absolutely and again with that ship in a ship thing people that want a more premium experience. A quieter experience potentially can get that. So that it's you know a a great way for cruise lines getting into a kind of industry thing to to really broaden the appeal of an individual brand but make sure that they have specific brands that people can fall into and you know spends more money wherever they're going. That that is one thing we're sure of biggest ship I don't know if you will that will cruise lines continue to try and make more money yes it's a business we can yes. That is assured so we do have some articles that we've mentioned throughout this podcast one of them on this topic that Billie wrote entitled new cruise ships are huge except when they're not yet and that's going to get back to when I was talking about what ships are coming out and you realize the average ship is not not only is it not a mega ship it's not even close so others let's see you we talked your hometown Tampa we're talking about driving ports Tampa being one of them and how much traffic you know the increase in cruise traffic that they've seen so you can check out that article as well will willing to do these and others in the show notes we also have an article about looking to the sea you know ship designs changing which I'm happy about again I like knowing Munna ship I like seeing the water so so willing to all of these and more including some of Rick's awesome live blogs in the show notes to be sure you check that out crews have it dot com And if you have questions for us that you'd like us to answer on this podcast or comments feedback you want to give us please e-mail us podcast at cruise habit dot com and the very last asked that that I have if you enjoyed the show and we both hope that you do go on to i Tunes or wherever you listen to your podcast even if you get in from somewhere else go to i Tunes leave us a review that that helps us get the word out helps other people find us and would mean a lot to both reckon. Hey this is Jerel from Halifax Nova Scotia a friend of Cruz habit dot com You can follow the guys on Twitter Instagram and Facebook you can you can subscribe to cruise habit podcasts on i Tunes Google Play or wherever you enjoy your podcast you can also search crews have in the periscope back to join the broadcast live from ship and shore they'd love to talk shit with you real soon.